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	<title>Comments on: preDevCamp &#8211; Palm&#8217;s missed opportunity</title>
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	<link>http://www.danrumney.co.uk/2009/05/21/predevcamp-palms-missed-opportunity/</link>
	<description>Technology from work and home</description>
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		<title>By: Mobgets</title>
		<link>http://www.danrumney.co.uk/2009/05/21/predevcamp-palms-missed-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-644</link>
		<dc:creator>Mobgets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 13:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danrumney.co.uk/?p=215#comment-644</guid>
		<description>The NDA is clearly not the issue here</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NDA is clearly not the issue here</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://www.danrumney.co.uk/2009/05/21/predevcamp-palms-missed-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danrumney.co.uk/?p=215#comment-137</guid>
		<description>What makes this behavior even more inexcusable is that there is already a template in place for how this is supposed to work - iPhone.  If you don&#039;t realize how important developers are to the establishment of a platform, then you&#039;re stupid.  And don&#039;t think that anything less than the establishment of a legitimate mobile computing platform will save Palm.  They cannot afford for the pre to just be a successful phone.

Since I don&#039;t believe that those at the helm at Palm are stupid, I am led to only one conclusion.  Palm doesn&#039;t really care about building a viable developer community.  That&#039;s because the whole point of this exercise is to make Palm an attractive takeover target.  There are two notable companies which are itching to get into this phone-slash-computer game, but they have repeatedly demostrated total ineptitude with respect to consumer electronics.  I predict that Microsoft will snap up Palm within the year if Dell doesn&#039;t beat them to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What makes this behavior even more inexcusable is that there is already a template in place for how this is supposed to work &#8211; iPhone.  If you don&#8217;t realize how important developers are to the establishment of a platform, then you&#8217;re stupid.  And don&#8217;t think that anything less than the establishment of a legitimate mobile computing platform will save Palm.  They cannot afford for the pre to just be a successful phone.</p>
<p>Since I don&#8217;t believe that those at the helm at Palm are stupid, I am led to only one conclusion.  Palm doesn&#8217;t really care about building a viable developer community.  That&#8217;s because the whole point of this exercise is to make Palm an attractive takeover target.  There are two notable companies which are itching to get into this phone-slash-computer game, but they have repeatedly demostrated total ineptitude with respect to consumer electronics.  I predict that Microsoft will snap up Palm within the year if Dell doesn&#8217;t beat them to it.</p>
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		<title>By: UPDATED: preDevCamp (not) deserted by Palm - Pocket.Info - Mobile News - Pocket.Info - Mobile News</title>
		<link>http://www.danrumney.co.uk/2009/05/21/predevcamp-palms-missed-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>UPDATED: preDevCamp (not) deserted by Palm - Pocket.Info - Mobile News - Pocket.Info - Mobile News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 17:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danrumney.co.uk/?p=215#comment-128</guid>
		<description>[...] Giovanni: “Palm doesn’t get it” Whurley: “Exit Whurley Stage Left” Dan: “preDevCamp - Palm’s missed opportunity” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Giovanni: “Palm doesn’t get it” Whurley: “Exit Whurley Stage Left” Dan: “preDevCamp &#8211; Palm’s missed opportunity” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Isaac</title>
		<link>http://www.danrumney.co.uk/2009/05/21/predevcamp-palms-missed-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Isaac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 03:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danrumney.co.uk/?p=215#comment-127</guid>
		<description>Firstly, statements to the effect of, &quot;omg, the Pre is ruined and The Community will never forgive them!&quot; are overstated at best, and at worst are, to use the wording of another commenter, self-aggrandizing. To think that _you_ or this camp represents the whole of the Pre development community is just hubris.

Secondly, Palm has done a lot to promote development on the Pre. The CTO is writing a book about it with O&#039;Reilly, for crying out loud. And what do you say to Classic? They could have easily walked away from PalmOS and the old apps, but instead spent a lot of money to develop a PalmOS emulation layer. And an SDK beta? Did Apple hold a closed beta for their SDK? No, they didn&#039;t even murmur about the iPhone until like 2 days before they released it.

Just a bunch of malcontents.

Also, my two cents on the NDA deal. I don&#039;t know what sort of conversations happened between you all and Palm, but based on what I&#039;ve read here I agree that tweeting about it maybe wasn&#039;t the best idea. But I&#039;m not going to beat this horse any further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, statements to the effect of, &#8220;omg, the Pre is ruined and The Community will never forgive them!&#8221; are overstated at best, and at worst are, to use the wording of another commenter, self-aggrandizing. To think that _you_ or this camp represents the whole of the Pre development community is just hubris.</p>
<p>Secondly, Palm has done a lot to promote development on the Pre. The CTO is writing a book about it with O&#8217;Reilly, for crying out loud. And what do you say to Classic? They could have easily walked away from PalmOS and the old apps, but instead spent a lot of money to develop a PalmOS emulation layer. And an SDK beta? Did Apple hold a closed beta for their SDK? No, they didn&#8217;t even murmur about the iPhone until like 2 days before they released it.</p>
<p>Just a bunch of malcontents.</p>
<p>Also, my two cents on the NDA deal. I don&#8217;t know what sort of conversations happened between you all and Palm, but based on what I&#8217;ve read here I agree that tweeting about it maybe wasn&#8217;t the best idea. But I&#8217;m not going to beat this horse any further.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Slaughter</title>
		<link>http://www.danrumney.co.uk/2009/05/21/predevcamp-palms-missed-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Slaughter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 14:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danrumney.co.uk/?p=215#comment-123</guid>
		<description>Reading between the lines, it sounds like Palm is more interested in large development houses designing apps for it&#039;s Pre phone than it is in private developers.  That is a common and understandable position to take for companies who are used to working in closed environments

It&#039;s not so common or understandable for companies in open software development environments.

It appears that Palm is attempting to transition from one to the other and not everyone got the word and as a corporation they are going through a period of inter-departmental conflict and confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading between the lines, it sounds like Palm is more interested in large development houses designing apps for it&#8217;s Pre phone than it is in private developers.  That is a common and understandable position to take for companies who are used to working in closed environments</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not so common or understandable for companies in open software development environments.</p>
<p>It appears that Palm is attempting to transition from one to the other and not everyone got the word and as a corporation they are going through a period of inter-departmental conflict and confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Rocky Road For preDevCamp, But It Keeps on Trucking &#124; Win Palm Pre</title>
		<link>http://www.danrumney.co.uk/2009/05/21/predevcamp-palms-missed-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Rocky Road For preDevCamp, But It Keeps on Trucking &#124; Win Palm Pre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 07:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danrumney.co.uk/?p=215#comment-122</guid>
		<description>[...] seemed to some that Palm was backing out of any support of preDevCamp.&#160; Whurley, Giovanni, and Dan each wrote their own blog posts on the issue, criticizing Palm&#8217;s developer relations.&#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] seemed to some that Palm was backing out of any support of preDevCamp.&nbsp; Whurley, Giovanni, and Dan each wrote their own blog posts on the issue, criticizing Palm&#8217;s developer relations.&nbsp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.danrumney.co.uk/2009/05/21/predevcamp-palms-missed-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 08:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danrumney.co.uk/?p=215#comment-121</guid>
		<description>I understand you&#039;re pissed off.  I get it.  Now get over it.

This matters to *you*, but not to my Mom.  Why is that important?  Because people like my Mom are the ones that buy phones.

In other words, you&#039;ve had bad news and thrown your dummy out of the pram.  You&#039;re not going to get any biscuit now that you&#039;re not playing any more.

If the pre is a success, developers will still come out of the woodwork and write programs for it, cancelled camp or not.  If it&#039;s not a success, your participation or not probably won&#039;t have had a lot to do with that.

I don&#039;t know that I would have taken Palm&#039;s approach, but they&#039;re in charge for this game.  

Why? Who&#039;s more important here?  Without you perhaps a few developers pout a bit, or choose not to release software.  Without them, there&#039;s no game at all. 

Best of luck, and I hope you find a platform you can love.

-Ken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand you&#8217;re pissed off.  I get it.  Now get over it.</p>
<p>This matters to *you*, but not to my Mom.  Why is that important?  Because people like my Mom are the ones that buy phones.</p>
<p>In other words, you&#8217;ve had bad news and thrown your dummy out of the pram.  You&#8217;re not going to get any biscuit now that you&#8217;re not playing any more.</p>
<p>If the pre is a success, developers will still come out of the woodwork and write programs for it, cancelled camp or not.  If it&#8217;s not a success, your participation or not probably won&#8217;t have had a lot to do with that.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know that I would have taken Palm&#8217;s approach, but they&#8217;re in charge for this game.  </p>
<p>Why? Who&#8217;s more important here?  Without you perhaps a few developers pout a bit, or choose not to release software.  Without them, there&#8217;s no game at all. </p>
<p>Best of luck, and I hope you find a platform you can love.</p>
<p>-Ken</p>
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		<title>By: m3kw9</title>
		<link>http://www.danrumney.co.uk/2009/05/21/predevcamp-palms-missed-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>m3kw9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 04:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danrumney.co.uk/?p=215#comment-120</guid>
		<description>I think there are 10 other &quot;dev camps&quot; out there...I didn&#039;t even know you guys were around until this news broke out.  I&#039;m sure palm pre will get a dev community, i like to dev for palm and i wouldn&#039;t care which dev site i&#039;m on as long as i get my anwsers.

This news is way over blown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are 10 other &#8220;dev camps&#8221; out there&#8230;I didn&#8217;t even know you guys were around until this news broke out.  I&#8217;m sure palm pre will get a dev community, i like to dev for palm and i wouldn&#8217;t care which dev site i&#8217;m on as long as i get my anwsers.</p>
<p>This news is way over blown.</p>
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		<title>By: a giant slor</title>
		<link>http://www.danrumney.co.uk/2009/05/21/predevcamp-palms-missed-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>a giant slor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 19:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danrumney.co.uk/?p=215#comment-118</guid>
		<description>It was stupid of you to tweet about the NDA. You need to tell them you&#039;re sorry and it will never happen again, and re-establish the relationship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was stupid of you to tweet about the NDA. You need to tell them you&#8217;re sorry and it will never happen again, and re-establish the relationship.</p>
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		<title>By: giovanni gallucci</title>
		<link>http://www.danrumney.co.uk/2009/05/21/predevcamp-palms-missed-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>giovanni gallucci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 18:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danrumney.co.uk/?p=215#comment-117</guid>
		<description>For clarification for people like marginalboy and Viktor, since the NDA is the main thing being discussed on most posts on the web. 

We were very specific and direct with Aaron Hyde that we signed the NDA to cover the release date of the phone. Nothing else. The fact the the meeting was taking place or that we had an NDA was absolutely not part of the agreement. 

Second point, Paul Cousineau and Chuq Von Rospach at Palm had asked us on a previous call to make sure the community knew they were talking to us. They were held under some tight restrictions about what they could say to the public, for obvious reasons, and had asked us to be sure the developer community knew they were engaged. 

It appears that the two competing needs (communication to the community that Palm was talking to the independent developers via preDevCamp and secrecy) driven by separate camps clashed.

This, coupled with our frustrations based upon some other issues in our relationship with Palm led to the decisions by whurley and myself to exit the scene. 

The worldwide movement we created under the preDevCamp banner is, by design, in tact and all local groups, as far as I can tell, are still planning their individual events. 

Last point, Palm gets it now...

Pam Deziel, VP of Developer Marketing, responded on the Palm Developer Network blog this morning about the situation:

&quot;We overreacted to the whole disclosure issue.  We’ve been in stealth and super secret mode for so long now, we needed a real world conversation to see how we needed to work things so everybody can operate in their own environment.&quot;

&quot;I’m optimistic that we can find a good solution. And we’re going to keep talking. We’d love to get your two cents, concerns, and suggestions — feel free to join the conversation here, and be assured that even when we sometimes have to keep quiet, we’re always listening to your ideas.&quot;

Read the whole post here: http://pdnblog.palm.com/2009/05/a-predevcamp-update/

Whurley and I are here to serve the community, not the corporation. When it became obvious that we needed to make a bold move to get Palm&#039;s attention on behalf of preDevCamp, we moved. Whether you agree with our tactics or not, Palm is seriously paying attention to you now. 

The end result has been a more active, genuine, serious relationship between Palm and its independent developer community. Everyone wins. This is what we, as leaders of the preDevCamp movement, hoped to create in the beginning. It looks like we&#039;re here now. 

Anyone want to talk to me about it personally, feel free to catch me on twitter http://twitter.com/giovanni, email at predevcamp(@)gallucci(dot)net or leave a comment on my original post http://blog.gallucci.net/2009/05/palm-doesnt-get-it.html

I&#039;m thinking it&#039;s water under the bridge now. Nothing to see here. Go forth and develop. I&#039;m going camping: http://dallas.wordcamp.org

-giovanni
http://twitter.com/giovanni</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For clarification for people like marginalboy and Viktor, since the NDA is the main thing being discussed on most posts on the web. </p>
<p>We were very specific and direct with Aaron Hyde that we signed the NDA to cover the release date of the phone. Nothing else. The fact the the meeting was taking place or that we had an NDA was absolutely not part of the agreement. </p>
<p>Second point, Paul Cousineau and Chuq Von Rospach at Palm had asked us on a previous call to make sure the community knew they were talking to us. They were held under some tight restrictions about what they could say to the public, for obvious reasons, and had asked us to be sure the developer community knew they were engaged. </p>
<p>It appears that the two competing needs (communication to the community that Palm was talking to the independent developers via preDevCamp and secrecy) driven by separate camps clashed.</p>
<p>This, coupled with our frustrations based upon some other issues in our relationship with Palm led to the decisions by whurley and myself to exit the scene. </p>
<p>The worldwide movement we created under the preDevCamp banner is, by design, in tact and all local groups, as far as I can tell, are still planning their individual events. </p>
<p>Last point, Palm gets it now&#8230;</p>
<p>Pam Deziel, VP of Developer Marketing, responded on the Palm Developer Network blog this morning about the situation:</p>
<p>&#8220;We overreacted to the whole disclosure issue.  We’ve been in stealth and super secret mode for so long now, we needed a real world conversation to see how we needed to work things so everybody can operate in their own environment.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I’m optimistic that we can find a good solution. And we’re going to keep talking. We’d love to get your two cents, concerns, and suggestions — feel free to join the conversation here, and be assured that even when we sometimes have to keep quiet, we’re always listening to your ideas.&#8221;</p>
<p>Read the whole post here: <a href="http://pdnblog.palm.com/2009/05/a-predevcamp-update/" rel="nofollow">http://pdnblog.palm.com/2009/05/a-predevcamp-update/</a></p>
<p>Whurley and I are here to serve the community, not the corporation. When it became obvious that we needed to make a bold move to get Palm&#8217;s attention on behalf of preDevCamp, we moved. Whether you agree with our tactics or not, Palm is seriously paying attention to you now. </p>
<p>The end result has been a more active, genuine, serious relationship between Palm and its independent developer community. Everyone wins. This is what we, as leaders of the preDevCamp movement, hoped to create in the beginning. It looks like we&#8217;re here now. </p>
<p>Anyone want to talk to me about it personally, feel free to catch me on twitter <a href="http://twitter.com/giovanni" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/giovanni</a>, email at predevcamp(@)gallucci(dot)net or leave a comment on my original post <a href="http://blog.gallucci.net/2009/05/palm-doesnt-get-it.html" rel="nofollow">http://blog.gallucci.net/2009/05/palm-doesnt-get-it.html</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking it&#8217;s water under the bridge now. Nothing to see here. Go forth and develop. I&#8217;m going camping: <a href="http://dallas.wordcamp.org" rel="nofollow">http://dallas.wordcamp.org</a></p>
<p>-giovanni<br />
<a href="http://twitter.com/giovanni" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/giovanni</a></p>
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